Posted by Ranger on 7/17/2007
There is no substitute for a Figure of 8 in my opinion but it is possible to use an Gri Gri or a ATC as a rappel device that being so
would anyone here be willing to Rappel on a Gri Gri or an ATC like that if they had other means of decending the Rope such as a Prussik or D-ring with Munter Hitch
Climb on
Ranger
Anykineclimb says:
figure 8s twist the ropes like crazy IMO. Second to a munter of course. Grigris are just fine but you're limited to a single rope rappel unless you do some special rigging to the line. ATC-type devices are great but the smoothness varies on the device.
Bumluck says:
Back in the day when we couldn't even afford figure 8s, we made rappel devices out of caribiners. They worked very well...could even use a double biner as a slower brake...Only problem, it took about 4 or 5 biners...Then of course there's always the deviceless overthe shoulder through the leg abseil (I can't even get close enough to the spelling to coax it out of a google search durshlitz or something). Never did have the rocks to try that one...probably why I can't spell it.
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climbingtrash says:
I haven't rapped on an 8 in a looong time. I use an ATC on multipitch routes and I self belay/rappel with a Gri-Gri when I'm on the Willy-stick.
woodchuck07 says:
dulfersitz' is yer' term I believe. Nothing more fun than burning the inside of your thighs and 'nads off with that retreat method. But remember, the climbers of that era were lowering down routes that today might only be 5.1 to 5.6 maybe, so they had their feet and weight on the slab for most of the descent.
.Today with wire and bent gates, you have no chance of a 'biner rappel working as trusty ovals allowed before. B-52's and Reverso's operate pretty smoothly so they might be better than an ATC shaped device. But a prussik protected lower on a Sticht plate has worked well in the past.
Bumluck says:
Ah yes...The oval. It's all coming back to me now.
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Anykineclimb says:
ACK WC! Dulfersitz?! I tried that once. ONCE I'd rather Batman down
Bumluck says:
Yes. Batmaning is possible on some beginner grade climbs.
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woodchuck07 says:
Dulfer'sitz does wonders to your crotch, pants, sholder, etc. No wonder Chouinard invented those double thick canvas pants for us in the 70's. Saved our 'nards from eternal damage I'd say.
rudolphluciani says:
I use the ATC exclusively. If attached directly to the harness it can be a little bumpy on the ride down, but that can be avoided by girthing a short sling to the rap loop and attaching the device to the sling with the standard locker.
Bumluck says:
I still use a figure 8, both to rappel and to belay. Can't imagine any thing more versitile...Unless of course you want to belay double ropes.
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Jaybyrdaz says:
I use an ATC for both belay and rappel, but I also keep 4 ovals on hand for a 4 'biner break as a backup.
woodchuck07 says:
No more 'biner breaks for me...thought that safety issues made that clear a decade ago. ATC kind of devices work well, I still use an '8 for most raps, which are few. Thus it doesn't do much twist damage to rope since I use so little and change out ropes alot to keep the wear/use even.
Jaybyrdaz says:
Woodchuck,
I missed that era of climbing, and I'm learning from some old-schoolers. I'm asking to learn from others, so...Aside from human error, are there any other major safety issues with a 'biner brake. What's the story?
Thanks,
JaybyrdazÂ
woodchuck07 says:
Before I could afford good gear, I lived with like 8 oval biners and a figure 8 and used them for belays and raps'as needed. It's the biner brake bar that is a definate no-no. Double biner break will do if you have ovals. So many doglegs and wires out there it's tough to have them now days.
Bumluck says:
Ahhh...The biner brake bar. I think I still have one lying around the bottom of my gear pack. Maybe it's worth something!
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voltigeur says:
I had to learn a biner brake as part of a guided course. (This was the same sado evil clown that made me prussik up a 60 ft cliff just so I would know how.) I have used a figure 8 for both rappel and to belay. I even have a Lowes Tuber in my kit some where.
Now I only carry a Reverso or ATC Guide. I can do anything I may have to with those auto lockers. For trad no reason to carry anything else.
I'm glad I know those old school skills but glad there are better devises out there.
Not a fan of the Grigri. It is a good device but when your cold tired and everythign is going to sh*#. It is too easy to wire it backwards. A buddy of mine too a 150 foot rappel fall when weather came in and they were making a hasty retreat. The only thing that saved his life was doing the Rambo thing through a tree. Also it tends to make new belayers way too complacent.
Just my 2 cents.
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