It seems to me that it somewhat depends on what kind of climbing your doing.
I know that I've done some multi-pitch that I would definantly consider aerobic but then again I've bouldered stuff I would definantly consider anerobic.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know what I'm talking about.
Aerobic exercise is a moderate activity conducted continuously over a period of time that elevates heart rate and relies on aerobic metabolism for energy. Examples are running & cycling. Anaerobic excercise on the other hand is a strenuous activity that relies on anaerobic metabolism for energy and results in the generation on lactic acid in the muscles. Examples are weight lifting and sprinting. I think in general that technical rock climbing would be considered an anaerobic activity. Possible exceptions would be doing a continuous moderate traverse or solo.
Blog on Performance nutrition, at Laus Deo has the break down of energy production from immediate energy system need 10-20 secs- ATP-CP, Short energy system needs up to 20-45 secs- Glycolysis, and Long term energy system needs >2 minutes- aerobic. This presentation actually discusses macro caloric contributing nutrients and when they are used as an energy source. For climbing all pathways are used in high intensity climbing through to failure. This article discusses ways to replenish Caloric need to each of these pathways and how/why it is important to know these systems physiologically.
aerobic for at or below your level of difficulty, where you can 'huff a big breath and make the move. Anaerobic when you are well above what you can do, where you end up holding your breath as the series of moves are done..who can breathe when their abs are all bunched up and tightened? Same as in gymnastics with strength moves I think. I can't remember the last time I took a restful breath while lowering through a cross' or strength move on still rings. You just get caught up in the concentration and focus to the task, so who has time to breathe? Amazing how many hard moves/stunts you can do within the 30 seconds you may have held your breath isn't it?
Any activity is a mix of the 3 energy systems: Phosphagen/ATP-PC (Power), Glycolytic/Anaerobic (Strength), Oxidative/Aerobic (Endurance). Unfortunatley, these systems are taught so that learners tend to think of the systems as on/off light switches. These three systems should be thought of as dimmer switches - where one systems predominates and the others are at a lower level. As the other posts indicate, the energy system used depends on the level of difficulty for the individual. Along the same lines, the Italian Olympic marathoner who won gold in 04, ran 26.2 4:40min/miles. I'm not sure if anyone out there has tried to run 1 4:40 mile - but I would guess that for a highly trained athlete, a 4:40 mile would be anaerobic. For elite marathoners, the 4:40-5min/mile is aerobic.
So, the answer is, it is all - Glycolytic, Phosphagen and Oxidative. It just depends on the individual's level of technique, perception, strength, endurance and power. Having said that, I believe that difficult climbing (and by that, I mean whatever your onsight/redpoint level is) is generally 1.Glycolytic 2.Phosphagen 3.Oxidative depends on the route/problem. A V10 boulderer, who rarely does more than 20 moves at a time, probably can redpoint a 5.12 faster than a sport climber who climbs many 5.11s and occasionally tries a 5.12.
Watts et al 04 study on the physiology of difficult rock climbing came to the conclusion that for climbs 5.11 or higher, the energy system requirement was roughly 50%aerobic and 50%anaerobic. But, we all know that some routes are long (more aerobic) and some are short (more anaerobic) at the same grade.
The topic is somewhat incomplete without inquiring neuromuscular recruitment. This is the nervous systems ability to recruit more musculature to do the same job. So, instead of doing bodybuilding strength exercises to make one's muscles larger in cross sectional diameter - it is better to work on movement difficulty (ie...bouldering). Many people don't like bouldering because it's hard and the failure rate is high (among other reasons I'm sure). But, if your goal is to climb at a higher YDS/V grade, then bouldering is the best way to recruit your nervous system. Then do a special endurance period to work your redpoint/onsight muscular abilities before your project.
Everyone understands all this technical physiology jargon right? Looking at climbing from a general exercise standpoint most climbing would not be aerobic exercise because in climbing you do not maintain an elevated heart rate for 20 minutes or more liking in running, swimming, or cycling. Most climbing seems to fit the definition of anaerobic exercise better. Anaerobic exercise is short-term, high intensity movement where oxygen is used up more quickly than the body can supply it to the muscles. In anaerobic exercise lactic acid builds up in the muscles being used. This lactic acid build up is more familiarly known to climbers as being "pumped".
I always thought bouldering is anaerobic and climbing is aerobic...because i flow when i climb, but bouldering is more strenuous. My coach explained this topic to me last week, but i totally forgot what he said.
Thank you captain static for clearing up my "technical jargon" - which, unfortunately gets more technical by a factor of 100.
In fact, climbers DO keep elevated heart rates - but comparatively low ventilary(breathing capt'n) rates. This is also seen in racing (ski/motocross/car/truck), where a person's heart (pulse) rate is very high for extended periods but, their breathing at around 50% of VO2Max.
Lactate or "lactic acid" as the cause of fatigue in working muscle was an explanation for a complex physiological processes. Lactate increases as climbing intensity increases, and as climbing intensity increases, fatigue increases, so it is assumed that lactate caused fatigue. If sport scientists didn't understand heart rate as well as we do, you could assume that heart rate and fatigue go hand in hand. Heart rate and fatigue both increase as climbing intensity increases, but we know that heart rate does not cause fatigue. The same is true of lactate. Understanding lactate requires a fair bit of biochemistry and physiology. Even many of the current physiology textbooks are outdated regarding the information they provide about lactate. There is interesting new research that has increased our understanding of lactate metabolism.
This is what we now know:
*Lactate does not cause fatigue, conversely it is a useful and efficient source of fuel.
*Lactic acid does not exist in the blood. As soon as it is produced, the substance thought to be lactic acid disassociates into lactate and hydrogen ions. A lactate analyzer measures the concentration of lactate (a useful fuel) in the blood.
*Because lactate does not cause fatigue, clearing it from the blood depends on how well an athlete uses it as fuel. Muscles not only tolerate lactate, but at times prefers lactate over glucose as an energy source.
*Although lactate production increases as climbing intensity increases, the body's ability to use lactate as fuel varies from athlete-athlete and varies with your level or current training, fed and rested state. Your ability to use lactate as fuel also changes the level of lactate that will appear in the blood at maximum sustainable workloads. This suggests that lactate concentration may not be a valid predictor of performance.
*Lactate and hydrogen ions are products from anaerobic metabolism. While the accumulation of hydrogen ions contribute to fatigue, it is not a 1:1 ratio with the appearance of lactate in the blood. There is new research that physiological mechanisms other than hydrogen ion accumulation are the main sources of muscular fatigue at non-sustainable workloads.
References
1. Brooks, G. A. Intra- and extra-cellular lactate shuttles. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 32:790-799, 2000.
2. Brooks, G. A. The lactate shuttle during exercise and recovery. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 18:360-368, 1986.
3. Consoli, A., N. Nurjhan, J. J. Reilly, Jr., D. M. Bier, and J. E. Gerich. Contribution of liver and skeletal muscle to alanine and lactate metabolism in humans. Am J Physiol. 259:E677-684, 1990.
4. Donovan, C. M. and G. A. Brooks. Endurance training affects lactate clearance, not lactate production. Am J Physiol. 244:E83-92, 1983.
5. Dubouchaud, H., G. E. Butterfield, E. E. Wolfel, B. C. Bergman, and G. A. Brooks. Endurance training, expression, and physiology of LDH, MCT1, and MCT4 in human skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 278:E571-579, 2000.
6. Miller, B. F., J. A. Fattor, K. A. Jacobs, M. A. Horning, F. Navazio, M. I. Lindinger, and G. A. Brooks. Lactate and glucose interactions during rest and exercise in men: effect of exogenous lactate infusion. J Physiol. 544:963-975, 2002.
7. Miller, B. F., J. A. Fattor, K. A. Jacobs, M. A. Horning, S. H. Suh, F. Navazio, and G. A. Brooks. Metabolic and cardiorespiratory responses to "the lactate clamp". Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 283:E889-898, 2002.
8. Nielsen, J. J., M. Mohr, C. Klarskov, M. Kristensen, P. Krustrup, C. Juel, and J. Bangsbo. Effects of high- intensity intermittent training on potassium kinetics and performance in human skeletal muscle. J Physiol. 554:857-870, 2004.
9. Westerblad, H., D. G. Allen, and J. Lannergren. Muscle fatigue: lactic acid or inorganic phosphate the major cause? News Physiol Sci. 17:17-21, 2002.
10. Westerblad, H., J. D. Bruton, and J. Lannergren. The effect of intracellular pH on contractile function of intact, single fibres of mouse muscle declines with increasing temperature. J Physiol. 500 ( Pt 1):193-204, 1997.
My point about climbing from a general exercise standpoint is the amount of time you maintain an elevated heart rate. Does it usually take more than 20 minutes to climb one pitch? (Not counting hangdogging!) Sport climbing many times involves just half a pitch. Even in trad climbing you get a rest at the belay. I don't know about you but I usually spend more time at the crag belaying and hanging around than climbing. If you want an aerobic workout (aka cardio) I don't think climbing fits the bill.
I am intrigued by the information you posted on lactate but could you explain in layman's terms what causes the forearm pump? Even more interesting would be what causes a "flash pump"?
“Pump” is essentially, the reduction in energy (ATP), which is the main culprit of acidosis, reducing the neurological impulse and the excitation-contraction (E-C) coupling of the molecular cross bridge attachments in individual muscle fibers. The contractile proteins of the muscle sarcomere require this ATP (energy) to contract and relax. Increased local muscular acidosis affects the sarcoplasmic calcium release and increase in magnesium which further inhibits contraction. Loss of contractile properties starts intramuscular pressure (IMP); IMP causes the occlusion of arterial vessels inhibiting O2 to muscular tissues, reducing your grip strength. This condition is dependent upon your maximal voluntary contraction (MVC); occlusion is very slow when the hold is less than 30% MVC, starts to rise steadily at 50% and is very fast when you reach 70% or above. This is what I meant by non-sustainable workloads, and what happens here is more of a neurological “non-capacity” rather than pump.
The biochemical reactions of muscle energy breakdown (catabolism) indicate that the hydrogen ion balance (acidosis – part of muscle “pump”) is influenced by all three energy systems: phosphagen, gylcolytic, and oxidative that function to produce ATP (energy). Principally when the rate of ATP breakdown exceeds the rate of all other cellular reactions, the rate of proton release (increasing acidosis) eventually exceeds metabolic proton buffering (compounds that stabilize the pH by removing or releasing protons: lactate, bicarbonates, phosphates, and proteins).
“Flash Pump” is a reaction to an incomplete warm up, in which the intensity is raised too quickly, resulting in too few muscle fibers working – and therefore using too much ATP too quickly or neurological “non-capacity” if the holds are beyond 70% of your MVC. This warm up for a specific activity is called “potentiation of muscle contractile performance”. If you increase the cross-sectional diameter (get bigger muscles), this is one way of increasing stored ATP – and bigger forearms would not be a detriment to overall weight issues, because, obviously, people don’t gain 10-15lbs of musculature in their forearms. The other (better) way is to recruit more muscles (neuromuscular recruitment) to do the same job, which collects stored ATP from many muscles rather than a few. There are many professional climbers who don’t have huge forearm muscles, but DO recruit more than the average person. Besides having high recruitment capabilities in their forearms, elite climbers tend to have favorable anthropomorphic features (good ape index), low body fat, high level of neural recruitment in other climbing specific muscles, and the proper psych issues…ie problem solving, perceptual awareness, and the willingness to fail.
David Wahl www.athletikspesifik.com
by David Wahl (not verified) on Sat, 2007-03-24 14:22
I will check out your references, this is awesome. Also your concise explaination of "pump" was very informative.
Could you explain when Lactate is used in preference to glucose as an energy source. Does the muscle need to be working aerobically to convert it? what is the chemical break down of lactate? It much be an efficient source to be used or are the other pathways exhausted and this is the pathway that is available?
There are suppliments that promote buffering capabilites, for improved recovery/performance. Do these agents have any validity.
*"when is lactate used in preference over glucose?
My understanding is that it depends upon the subcellular and extracellular substrate (NAD+/NADH...pyruvate...glutamate)concentration. Much of this is BioPhysics (cellular membrane) research, of which, I'm claiming no expertise.
*does the muscle need to be working aerobically to convert it?
The muscle needs to be working anaerobically to make the switch to Lactate - if I understand your question correctly.
*what is the chemical breakdown of Lactate?
Pyruvate + NADH + Hyrdogen(+)--> lactate + NAD(+)
*are other pathways exhausted?
Remember that pathways are not an on/off switch, but run concurrently with each other. So, in general Lactate augments the situation - OBLA(onset of blood lactate acidosis), but at some point is trying to buffer inorganic phosphates developed by glycolysis. When glycolysis gets far enough along toward the Lactate Threshold (LT), Lactate is preferred over glucose to a certain extent, but, glycolysis still happens.
"so in basic terms, its aerobic for easy stuff, and anaerobic for anything that requires a lot of effort?????"
Yes Sir! Aerobic for stuff that is ~30% of your maximum voluntary contraction(MVC), and at around 50% of your MVC, systems start to rely more upon anaerobic/PCr and the time starts ticking and at 70%MVC you don't have much time. So, it seems that it depends on your MVC of your grip/body weight/efficiency/perception when aerobic turns to anaerobic.
Kimura et al Contribution of Intramuscular Metabolism to total ATP Production during Forearm Isometric Exercise at Varying Intensities. Tohoku J. Exp. Med. 06
I would say the easiest way to judge whether your doin something (climbing wise) anaerobic or arobic is if your getting pumped then it's anaerobic. if you are maintaining a constant level of exsertion without to much effort then it's more arobic. now was that so hard?
sunshine says:
its a type of jazzercize actually
Jimn72 says:
It seems to me that it somewhat depends on what kind of climbing your doing.
I know that I've done some multi-pitch that I would definantly consider aerobic but then again I've bouldered stuff I would definantly consider anerobic.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know what I'm talking about.
captain static says:
Aerobic exercise is a moderate activity conducted continuously over a period of time that elevates heart rate and relies on aerobic metabolism for energy. Examples are running & cycling. Anaerobic excercise on the other hand is a strenuous activity that relies on anaerobic metabolism for energy and results in the generation on lactic acid in the muscles. Examples are weight lifting and sprinting. I think in general that technical rock climbing would be considered an anaerobic activity. Possible exceptions would be doing a continuous moderate traverse or solo.
cbear says:
I think climbing is anaerobic, the approach however can be very aerobic. it kills me everytime.
Laus Deo says:
Blog on Performance nutrition, at Laus Deo has the break down of energy production from immediate energy system need 10-20 secs- ATP-CP, Short energy system needs up to 20-45 secs- Glycolysis, and Long term energy system needs >2 minutes- aerobic. This presentation actually discusses macro caloric contributing nutrients and when they are used as an energy source. For climbing all pathways are used in high intensity climbing through to failure. This article discusses ways to replenish Caloric need to each of these pathways and how/why it is important to know these systems physiologically.
For hard copy send me an e-mail at Laus Deo
Grant Walker
Laus Deo
woodchuck07 says:
aerobic for at or below your level of difficulty, where you can 'huff a big breath and make the move. Anaerobic when you are well above what you can do, where you end up holding your breath as the series of moves are done..who can breathe when their abs are all bunched up and tightened? Same as in gymnastics with strength moves I think. I can't remember the last time I took a restful breath while lowering through a cross' or strength move on still rings. You just get caught up in the concentration and focus to the task, so who has time to breathe? Amazing how many hard moves/stunts you can do within the 30 seconds you may have held your breath isn't it?
AthletikSpesifik says:
Any activity is a mix of the 3 energy systems: Phosphagen/ATP-PC (Power), Glycolytic/Anaerobic (Strength), Oxidative/Aerobic (Endurance). Unfortunatley, these systems are taught so that learners tend to think of the systems as on/off light switches. These three systems should be thought of as dimmer switches - where one systems predominates and the others are at a lower level. As the other posts indicate, the energy system used depends on the level of difficulty for the individual. Along the same lines, the Italian Olympic marathoner who won gold in 04, ran 26.2 4:40min/miles. I'm not sure if anyone out there has tried to run 1 4:40 mile - but I would guess that for a highly trained athlete, a 4:40 mile would be anaerobic. For elite marathoners, the 4:40-5min/mile is aerobic.
So, the answer is, it is all - Glycolytic, Phosphagen and Oxidative. It just depends on the individual's level of technique, perception, strength, endurance and power. Having said that, I believe that difficult climbing (and by that, I mean whatever your onsight/redpoint level is) is generally 1.Glycolytic 2.Phosphagen 3.Oxidative depends on the route/problem. A V10 boulderer, who rarely does more than 20 moves at a time, probably can redpoint a 5.12 faster than a sport climber who climbs many 5.11s and occasionally tries a 5.12.
Watts et al 04 study on the physiology of difficult rock climbing came to the conclusion that for climbs 5.11 or higher, the energy system requirement was roughly 50%aerobic and 50%anaerobic. But, we all know that some routes are long (more aerobic) and some are short (more anaerobic) at the same grade.
The topic is somewhat incomplete without inquiring neuromuscular recruitment. This is the nervous systems ability to recruit more musculature to do the same job. So, instead of doing bodybuilding strength exercises to make one's muscles larger in cross sectional diameter - it is better to work on movement difficulty (ie...bouldering). Many people don't like bouldering because it's hard and the failure rate is high (among other reasons I'm sure). But, if your goal is to climb at a higher YDS/V grade, then bouldering is the best way to recruit your nervous system. Then do a special endurance period to work your redpoint/onsight muscular abilities before your project.
Oops, sorry - got to go to work
David Wahl
www.athletikspesifik.com
captain static says:
Everyone understands all this technical physiology jargon right? Looking at climbing from a general exercise standpoint most climbing would not be aerobic exercise because in climbing you do not maintain an elevated heart rate for 20 minutes or more liking in running, swimming, or cycling. Most climbing seems to fit the definition of anaerobic exercise better. Anaerobic exercise is short-term, high intensity movement where oxygen is used up more quickly than the body can supply it to the muscles. In anaerobic exercise lactic acid builds up in the muscles being used. This lactic acid build up is more familiarly known to climbers as being "pumped".
badash says:
I always thought bouldering is anaerobic and climbing is aerobic...because i flow when i climb, but bouldering is more strenuous. My coach explained this topic to me last week, but i totally forgot what he said.
AthletikSpesifik says:
Thank you captain static for clearing up my "technical jargon" - which, unfortunately gets more technical by a factor of 100.
In fact, climbers DO keep elevated heart rates - but comparatively low ventilary(breathing capt'n) rates. This is also seen in racing (ski/motocross/car/truck), where a person's heart (pulse) rate is very high for extended periods but, their breathing at around 50% of VO2Max.
Lactate or "lactic acid" as the cause of fatigue in working muscle was an explanation for a complex physiological processes. Lactate increases as climbing intensity increases, and as climbing intensity increases, fatigue increases, so it is assumed that lactate caused fatigue. If sport scientists didn't understand heart rate as well as we do, you could assume that heart rate and fatigue go hand in hand. Heart rate and fatigue both increase as climbing intensity increases, but we know that heart rate does not cause fatigue. The same is true of lactate. Understanding lactate requires a fair bit of biochemistry and physiology. Even many of the current physiology textbooks are outdated regarding the information they provide about lactate. There is interesting new research that has increased our understanding of lactate metabolism.
This is what we now know:
*Lactate does not cause fatigue, conversely it is a useful and efficient source of fuel.
*Lactic acid does not exist in the blood. As soon as it is produced, the substance thought to be lactic acid disassociates into lactate and hydrogen ions. A lactate analyzer measures the concentration of lactate (a useful fuel) in the blood.
*Because lactate does not cause fatigue, clearing it from the blood depends on how well an athlete uses it as fuel. Muscles not only tolerate lactate, but at times prefers lactate over glucose as an energy source.
*Although lactate production increases as climbing intensity increases, the body's ability to use lactate as fuel varies from athlete-athlete and varies with your level or current training, fed and rested state. Your ability to use lactate as fuel also changes the level of lactate that will appear in the blood at maximum sustainable workloads. This suggests that lactate concentration may not be a valid predictor of performance.
*Lactate and hydrogen ions are products from anaerobic metabolism. While the accumulation of hydrogen ions contribute to fatigue, it is not a 1:1 ratio with the appearance of lactate in the blood. There is new research that physiological mechanisms other than hydrogen ion accumulation are the main sources of muscular fatigue at non-sustainable workloads.
References
1. Brooks, G. A. Intra- and extra-cellular lactate shuttles. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 32:790-799, 2000.
2. Brooks, G. A. The lactate shuttle during exercise and recovery. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 18:360-368, 1986.
3. Consoli, A., N. Nurjhan, J. J. Reilly, Jr., D. M. Bier, and J. E. Gerich. Contribution of liver and skeletal muscle to alanine and lactate metabolism in humans. Am J Physiol. 259:E677-684, 1990.
4. Donovan, C. M. and G. A. Brooks. Endurance training affects lactate clearance, not lactate production. Am J Physiol. 244:E83-92, 1983.
5. Dubouchaud, H., G. E. Butterfield, E. E. Wolfel, B. C. Bergman, and G. A. Brooks. Endurance training, expression, and physiology of LDH, MCT1, and MCT4 in human skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 278:E571-579, 2000.
6. Miller, B. F., J. A. Fattor, K. A. Jacobs, M. A. Horning, F. Navazio, M. I. Lindinger, and G. A. Brooks. Lactate and glucose interactions during rest and exercise in men: effect of exogenous lactate infusion. J Physiol. 544:963-975, 2002.
7. Miller, B. F., J. A. Fattor, K. A. Jacobs, M. A. Horning, S. H. Suh, F. Navazio, and G. A. Brooks. Metabolic and cardiorespiratory responses to "the lactate clamp". Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 283:E889-898, 2002.
8. Nielsen, J. J., M. Mohr, C. Klarskov, M. Kristensen, P. Krustrup, C. Juel, and J. Bangsbo. Effects of high- intensity intermittent training on potassium kinetics and performance in human skeletal muscle. J Physiol. 554:857-870, 2004.
9. Westerblad, H., D. G. Allen, and J. Lannergren. Muscle fatigue: lactic acid or inorganic phosphate the major cause? News Physiol Sci. 17:17-21, 2002.
10. Westerblad, H., J. D. Bruton, and J. Lannergren. The effect of intracellular pH on contractile function of intact, single fibres of mouse muscle declines with increasing temperature. J Physiol. 500 ( Pt 1):193-204, 1997.
David Wahl
www.athletikspesifik.com
captain static says:
My point about climbing from a general exercise standpoint is the amount of time you maintain an elevated heart rate. Does it usually take more than 20 minutes to climb one pitch? (Not counting hangdogging!) Sport climbing many times involves just half a pitch. Even in trad climbing you get a rest at the belay. I don't know about you but I usually spend more time at the crag belaying and hanging around than climbing. If you want an aerobic workout (aka cardio) I don't think climbing fits the bill.
I am intrigued by the information you posted on lactate but could you explain in layman's terms what causes the forearm pump? Even more interesting would be what causes a "flash pump"?
David Wahl says:
“Pump” is essentially, the reduction in energy (ATP), which is the main culprit of acidosis, reducing the neurological impulse and the excitation-contraction (E-C) coupling of the molecular cross bridge attachments in individual muscle fibers. The contractile proteins of the muscle sarcomere require this ATP (energy) to contract and relax. Increased local muscular acidosis affects the sarcoplasmic calcium release and increase in magnesium which further inhibits contraction. Loss of contractile properties starts intramuscular pressure (IMP); IMP causes the occlusion of arterial vessels inhibiting O2 to muscular tissues, reducing your grip strength. This condition is dependent upon your maximal voluntary contraction (MVC); occlusion is very slow when the hold is less than 30% MVC, starts to rise steadily at 50% and is very fast when you reach 70% or above. This is what I meant by non-sustainable workloads, and what happens here is more of a neurological “non-capacity” rather than pump.
The biochemical reactions of muscle energy breakdown (catabolism) indicate that the hydrogen ion balance (acidosis – part of muscle “pump”) is influenced by all three energy systems: phosphagen, gylcolytic, and oxidative that function to produce ATP (energy). Principally when the rate of ATP breakdown exceeds the rate of all other cellular reactions, the rate of proton release (increasing acidosis) eventually exceeds metabolic proton buffering (compounds that stabilize the pH by removing or releasing protons: lactate, bicarbonates, phosphates, and proteins).
“Flash Pump” is a reaction to an incomplete warm up, in which the intensity is raised too quickly, resulting in too few muscle fibers working – and therefore using too much ATP too quickly or neurological “non-capacity” if the holds are beyond 70% of your MVC. This warm up for a specific activity is called “potentiation of muscle contractile performance”. If you increase the cross-sectional diameter (get bigger muscles), this is one way of increasing stored ATP – and bigger forearms would not be a detriment to overall weight issues, because, obviously, people don’t gain 10-15lbs of musculature in their forearms. The other (better) way is to recruit more muscles (neuromuscular recruitment) to do the same job, which collects stored ATP from many muscles rather than a few. There are many professional climbers who don’t have huge forearm muscles, but DO recruit more than the average person. Besides having high recruitment capabilities in their forearms, elite climbers tend to have favorable anthropomorphic features (good ape index), low body fat, high level of neural recruitment in other climbing specific muscles, and the proper psych issues…ie problem solving, perceptual awareness, and the willingness to fail.
David Wahl
www.athletikspesifik.com
Jimn72 says:
Yeah!!! I mean this is'nt rocket surgery people.
Laus Deo says:
Wow. Right on David.
I will check out your references, this is awesome. Also your concise explaination of "pump" was very informative.
Could you explain when Lactate is used in preference to glucose as an energy source. Does the muscle need to be working aerobically to convert it? what is the chemical break down of lactate? It much be an efficient source to be used or are the other pathways exhausted and this is the pathway that is available?
There are suppliments that promote buffering capabilites, for improved recovery/performance. Do these agents have any validity.
thanks,
Grant Walker
AthletikSpesifik says:
Great questions Grant
*"when is lactate used in preference over glucose?
My understanding is that it depends upon the subcellular and extracellular substrate (NAD+/NADH...pyruvate...glutamate)concentration. Much of this is BioPhysics (cellular membrane) research, of which, I'm claiming no expertise.
*does the muscle need to be working aerobically to convert it?
The muscle needs to be working anaerobically to make the switch to Lactate - if I understand your question correctly.
*what is the chemical breakdown of Lactate?
Pyruvate + NADH + Hyrdogen(+)--> lactate + NAD(+)
*are other pathways exhausted?
Remember that pathways are not an on/off switch, but run concurrently with each other. So, in general Lactate augments the situation - OBLA(onset of blood lactate acidosis), but at some point is trying to buffer inorganic phosphates developed by glycolysis. When glycolysis gets far enough along toward the Lactate Threshold (LT), Lactate is preferred over glucose to a certain extent, but, glycolysis still happens.
For those who have some biochemistry background or are deeply interested check this:
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0102/rar.pdf
David Wahl
www.athletikspesifik.com
badash says:
so in basic terms, its aerobic for easy stuff, and anaerobic for anything that requires a lot of effort?????
AthletikSpesifik says:
"so in basic terms, its aerobic for easy stuff, and anaerobic for anything that requires a lot of effort?????"
Yes Sir! Aerobic for stuff that is ~30% of your maximum voluntary contraction(MVC), and at around 50% of your MVC, systems start to rely more upon anaerobic/PCr and the time starts ticking and at 70%MVC you don't have much time. So, it seems that it depends on your MVC of your grip/body weight/efficiency/perception when aerobic turns to anaerobic.
Kimura et al Contribution of Intramuscular Metabolism to total ATP Production during Forearm Isometric Exercise at Varying Intensities. Tohoku J. Exp. Med. 06
David Wahl
thestidham says:
I would say the easiest way to judge whether your doin something (climbing wise) anaerobic or arobic is if your getting pumped then it's anaerobic. if you are maintaining a constant level of exsertion without to much effort then it's more arobic. now was that so hard?
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