When is it OK to take gear left on a route?

I think you are a good guy and the law of return, I believe, will be good to you. I think it is a good thing to be good to one another. With that said, I believe you had a right to keep that piece. But I would have done the same as you did.

I say as soon as any possible owners are off the rock and out of sight, it's yours to claim. Hey, just got back last month from the Red and you wouldn't believe all the quick draws that folks leave behind there.....what a goldmine of free gear! JUST KIDDING!!!!

Climbinwall, you did the right and the only honest thing you could do. Being greedy and taking advantage of beginners is pretty low.

gssettles says:
With that said, I believe you had a right to keep that piece.

I respectfully disagree. While gssettles lists no reasons why it SHOULD be like he says, I offer few points why it is a bad style:

1. Losing gear sucks. Imagine how you would feel if YOUR second (a beginner) couldn't get YOUR piece out and left it behind. And soon afterwards, some party of more experienced climbers arrives, and lo, your nice expensive cam is dangling from his harness and he says he can't give it back to you because it's his booty.
2. Helping somebody by bringing them back what they accidentally lost is honorable and satisfying. It may turn into a nice conversation, making new friends and a really nice climbing day. If I see someone (especially a beginner) above me desperately struggling and failing to clean pro, I will offer to try to clean it myself and bring it back to them.
3. How much can you trust any gear that you found? Seriously, is the booty worthy of a dent in your conscience?

And no, I don't think that the other party behaving somewhat non-kosher would justify you taking their gear. Be grand, don't get vindictive. Talk to them if you believe they could do things better.

Agree with woodchuck07 - a piece is yours ONLY after you made every effort to get it back to its rightful owner. This means usually taking it out, and asking parties above me and at the start of the route (after I come back down) if they didn't lose a piece.

In conclusion, whenever you are faced with moral dilemmas like these, go for being a nice guy. You will feel better.

I would have given the piece back along with some advice on rapping a route. haha (hanging for an hour?) I keep gear only when I know the owners are looong gone.

yeah, I'd definitely give back the gear if I knew who the owner was. In RRCOS once, I helped a group with a stuck Friend secretly hoping they would give up so I could come back and work it by myself and get it out. We eventually got it out and was happy the guy got his cam back.
One thing that got my attention was how long the other party took on the rap. I think they should have offered to let you guys rap on their line fo having to wait so long. especially after getting their gear back.

On a recent trip to Eldo I found two overcammed TCUs on the same climb. They were both BRAND NEW. They were almost certainly from the same person and they were NOT coming out. Now that would really suck to lose two cams on the same climb but I bet he/she learned a good lesson about how to place cams. I have left pieces before while cragging so I didn't have to sit while seconding and then retrieved on rappel later. I bet he saw the piece on your rack or why would he have mentioned "If its still there". karma

Risi sounds like an honest and honorable person and someone who would be a great climbing partner and I agree with everything he said. The only reasom I can give to why you would have the right to the piece is because if I had to tell my second to leave a piece or I had to leave one, I feel that piece is no longer mine. I should have done a better job at putting it in, so my second could get it out.

On the second pitch of Bastille Crack I reached around blindly and place a C4. I overcammed it because I wasn't looking at the placement. I tried briefly to free it but then, since I was leading, told my partner I was sorry and continued. If he didn't get it out it was MY fault and I did not expect him to spend a half hour working on it. As it turned out he did get it out but I was fully expecting the next party up to get a free cam if they were willing to put the work in to free it.

left a brand new cam, on first use, as lowest piece only 10 ft. up. Just forgot to grab it after I was down and driving half way home. So question is: Do you return to try and find it or just give it up as lost?

I say if the gear is there and there is absolutely nobody around, grab it. But maybe leave a note at the entrance to the area stating you found a piece of gear, if they can identify where they left it, it's theres, if not, it's yours. 9 times out of 10 nobody will claim it anyway. But what you did was the right thing to do, just sucks to be hanging for an hour.

100% agree basecamp, that is the procedure to follow. Post the note, expect no reply, keep the freebie' for a trophy or use it.

Oh, and for those tough retrivals, a small 1-2 oz chunk of plastique', (C-4) and a long fuse should blast it free with some expected damage. Consider the possibilities.

Yes giving it back was the right thing.

Climbing Shirts for Climbing Bums

Kinda seems like the simple fact that you felt the need to contemplate the situation so deeply gave you all the answers. I seem to find that when my head and my heart disagree on some moral issue, I generally already have the proper answer, but just don't want to accept it. Sucks, but it's true.

The bad manners and the cam abandonment were two separate issues which could, as Climbing Trash said, have been solved during a single conversation. That said, you did the right thing by giving the cam back. Karma, karma, baby.

Oh, and to whomever might be reading this blog, cuddling up to my Metolius fat cam, yellow, #3, lost on the South Face of Looking Glass, please take good care of it! Total bummer to have lost it!!

good manners, bad mannners, no mannners; the law of ownership does not change. if you kept something that someone else owns and you know who and where they are.....guess what...

Uhh.....What??? (I'm terrible at guessing)

Sooo....The way I see it, it was cool of you to hand the piece back to the guy, but when you climb on with a piece stuck (see Ed's crack) you already accepted the fact that you've lost it. If you could get it out, then they could've gotten it as well. They were the lazy ones that don't mind pooping out 60 bucks like it's nothing, unlike me, who would spend a day on the side to get my new camalot out of where it was stuck. The trustafarians don't mind throwing money away, Dirtbags on the other hand....guess what CT...hehe
Licentia Haud Vestigium

WHAT-WHAT?!?! Tell me gawd damnit...Well GB, the way I see it is, you have just have to ask yourself...What would Jesus, Buddha, Shiva, Lao-tzu, The Dahali Lama, Benji, Super man, the Pope, some guy named Eugene, or anyone with a shred of pride and honor do??? I'll tell you what they would do if they retrieved a piece of gear and knew who it belonged to...They'd give it back. Know why? GUESS! hahaha (or don't)

What would Minny Pearl do?
Licentia Haud Vestigium

Why she'd giv'em there piece back along with a bucket of chicken of course. (you really showed your hill-billy colors with that comment GB)

Suprise ya?
Licentia Haud Vestigium

Not really.

Just quoting a Rodney Crowell tune.
Licentia Haud Vestigium

Alright. Just listened to him on myspace, he's not too bad. Boarder line truck-stop country. (aka Corny-country) I'm going to see Sonvolt on Sunday, you ever listen to them?

I'm talking about his new album, the song is Time to go inward. More pissed alt folk than his early stuff.
Yea I love Sonvolt! It should be a good show. I think we may get along well when you finally get your ass out East. Climbing to Fugazi is SO bitchin!
Licentia Haud Vestigium

HAHAHA...FUGAZI...hahaha-oh-oh-aahhh. *my eyes are watering*

Do tell why, I'll wait. hehehe 'I am a patient boy'.
Licentia Haud Vestigium

Why what?

Your eyes were watering, I was just wanting a chance to quote Fugazi.
Licentia Haud Vestigium

Oh! haha you said Fugazi but I was thinking of the Fugees...that's why I was laughing. (it's past my bed time)

Go to bed, for your own good. Geez.
Licentia Haud Vestigium